Modern Fatherhood: Raising Emotionally Resilient Boys in a Digital World

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Welcome to the Where Parents Talk podcast. We help grow better parents through science, evidence, and the lived experience of other parents.

Learn how to better navigate the mental and physical health of your tween teen or young adult through proven expert advice. Here's your host, Lianne Castelino.

How do we raise emotionally grounded, resilient boys in a digital age flooded with toxic masculinity, identity confusion, and the ever growing influence of the manosphere? Welcome to Where Parents Talk. My name is Lianne Castelino. Our guest today is a leadership coach, a speaker, and a personal trainer.

Drew Soleyn is also the founder of Connected Dads and director of dad Central Ontario. He is a father of five and he joins us today from Kingston, Ontario. Great to have you, Drew. Thanks for joining us.

Well, thank you so much, Lianne. I'm honored to be here.

I'd like to start, if I could, with a bit of your lived experience from your childhood. Certainly something that most of us can hardly imagine.

You were abducted by your father as a child, and I wonder how that early trauma has shaped, if at all, the way that you understand fatherhood today.

Yeah, maybe not your typical childhood or start. And in terms of shaping it, absolutely. I think if you've reviewed any of my website, you would have seen I have a phrase turning pain into purpose.

And so when I was about to become a dad, you know, the experience that I had in my childhood was very prominent on my mind and, and I would say I almost felt compelled to talk about it, whereas before I remember having a short conversation with my mom, I was probably 18. You know, she's a fantastic mom.

Obviously worked as hard as she could to support me to heal and recover from that experience and had always focused on my, you know, I'll say my well being, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, of course, is my physical well being. And she asked me a question, she said, drew, can we talk about this experience?

We'd never talked about it much, and at that point, at 18, I said, no, what do we need to talk about it for? It was in the past. It's done. The only reason I ever want to talk about mom is if it could help somebody. And so fast forward to becoming a dad.

I think the most important person I need to help at that time was me because, you know, with my desire to be the most present, available, loving, kind parent, I just felt that I needed, I needed to just share it with others and not again from a place of, hey, here's what's going on for me. But it's so important to me as a dad.

So it shaped it in terms of I always knew that I wanted to be a different type of father, and I always wanted, Knew. Knew that I wanted my children to have a very different experience growing up than what I had growing up.

So it was, I'd say, foundational to shaping my perspective as a father.

So what was the tipping point then, Drew, in terms of turning that pain into purpose for you?

Hmm. I would have to say when my son was born, so he's our third child, and, you know, life just got really challenging at the time.

My wife had just made a tough decision to sell her business.

That had been a dream that she'd been, you know, running for about four or five, five, I'd say, years at that time, you know, I had just been put into a new role at work. Career pivot was being, you know, pointed to as providing significant leadership. And then we had some family challenges. We had.

My grandmother died and then an untimely death in my ex wife's family. Her uncle died suddenly. And so life just really hit hard.

And I found myself really doing everything I could to hold the family together, to serve the needs of the children, to serve the needs of my wife, and to, you know, just continue to lead and do well at work. And I think I was caring way too much. So the tipping point was recognizing that I'm. I'm. I can't handle all this.

And what happened is that it would show up at home, right? I would be impatient, I would be intolerant, and there was just a lot of pain that I was experiencing at home. And I didn't really have a way to.

An outlet for it. I didn't have a way to process it that felt like it provided any form of relief. It just felt heavier and heavier.

So I'd say the tipping point was life crashing down and recognizing that needs to be something more here.

There will be many parents who listen to and watch this interview who can relate to what you just described, Drew.

And you have the fortune of, you know, supporting many dads who are maybe in that category themselves in terms of what you do with dad central and connected dads. So what kind of trends, if any, are you noticing with respect to what dads are telling you about, just in general?

Yeah, that's a fair question. And, you know, every dad's story is going to be a little bit different, but I'd say there are. There are three common things that typically come up.

So right now, in this age of technology, you know, screens are a challenge I think for any parent at any agent stage, but especially in this sort of tween and early teen stage screens and how do you handle that and how do you relate to your children? How do you work with this screen? I think many parents I don't know, but may have just given up, not, not sure how to approach it. That's one.

I think fathers are always feeling stretched, they're feeling pulled in many different directions and I think there's many layers to that.

But essentially it's how do you take care of all these responsibilities and how do you then care for yourself at the same time so that you can show up the way you want to and not feel like you're letting someone down somewhere.

And I think the other trend I would say is that, you know, fathers are, are wanting, are seeking resources and support but are still struggling to find places and spaces that really recognize their heart of wanting to be a father, of wanting to be a good dad.

They're still viewed with as you opened up in, you know, this idea of some of the toxic masculinity or some of these other ways that you know, have traditionally how fathers might have been viewed but are not how fathers today want to be viewed or want to actually the heart behind how they want to be parents.

You touched on a lot there.

And I wonder, you know, when you talk about dads who their self care, like a lot of moms, ends up taking a backseat if at all on the priority list, what do you say to them in terms of how to support them and maybe alter a bit of their mindset around the importance of self care error before you, you know, parent really?

Yeah, I think the conversation really goes more to the place of how do you regulate your emotions in the face of these constant demands and challenges so that you can show up in the moments in the way that you want to show up. Because I think it shows up for fathers in intolerance, impatience.

You know, sometimes the yelling, the raising the voice and most dads don't want to, but it's literally because it's like the straw that broke the camel's back, right?

You know, you're carrying all that you're carrying, you're at home, the kid and your children continue to maybe do something that is not aligned with and it just something somebody comes and so what the self care is more about how do you regulate, regulate those emotions, how do you regulate your needs and find I would say micro moments to be able to re engage with yourself, to be able to process what you need to process so that you can show up in that moment. So, you know, simply making sure that you are breathing, that you are in those moments.

You are, if you need to, you are removing yourself, you're taking a moment, you're establishing healthy boundaries. Some of that is, I think, more helpful for followers. Practical, tangible, moment by moment, in those periods where you would trip up.

That's where I think the focus ends up being more for followers and also being, I think, practical and helpful for them because generally they can carry the load and they can perform. But at the same time, it's.

It's the ability to take those moments, to reconnect with themselves and support themselves, which isn't seen as the, you know, taking a day off or going off with your buddies. And I think that is important, maybe we'll touch on it later, is the ability to have strong, close, connected community or friendships.

That's very important and powerful too.

Certainly every age and stage of a child's life presents, you know, wonderful rewards and incredible challenges in terms of parenting. When we talk about adolescence, there's no shortage of challenges.

I wonder why you think that so many fathers feel a lack of confidence and tend to struggle in their role when their kids are in those tween teen and adolescent years.

Yeah, I mean, as I said, every story is a little bit different. I think there are some observations both from me personally, but also in, you know, doing the work that we do, depending on the context.

Sometimes fathers aren't as involved when the children are younger and they haven't developed some of the skills in terms of relating and engaging with their children in ways that are maybe as helpful or as productive to building a strong relationship or as a more connected relationship. And sometimes again, in the teen agent, adolescent agent stage, you know, there's. There's another element which I.

I'm experiencing myself is I see my children growing independent, which is excellent. I love that. But there's also truly an emotional letting go of that happens because I'm not needed as maybe as I was before.

Or I see my children going in, making decisions that maybe I wouldn't want them to make those decisions. But they are getting to the age of stage where they're able to make more independent choices. And so there's an emotional element of. That's hard.

That's hard as a parent, and many dads may not be fully aware of that. But I mean, I'm talking about it because this is what I'm going through now too.

And so I recognize how that has impacted me and My willingness or ability to be able to engage and relate to my daughters in ways that is more from a place of curiosity and understanding as opposed to the directing and correcting. We'll say, right where this is how you do it, this is what you should be doing. Why are you doing those types of things?

And so I think I'm off track a little bit. But the. The main element, I think, actually, can you remind me question?

Well, it was really about, you know, when dads, kind of, many of them lose their confidence, right. Their kids are in the adolescent stage.

So I think there's an element of. Because you haven't built up that skill early on, it's harder at this age and stage because of what I just described.

Some of the emotions you're experiencing, plus the children's growing independence. And there's sometimes friction in choices that teenagers want to make, choices that may not align with your views or your values as a parent.

And the other element is sometimes, again, back to the skill is the ability to listen effectively or understand how to relate to children who are going through this very important but also very challenging developmental stage physically, emotionally. Right. You're seeing significant changes. And sometimes that's not easy for dads especially.

And I've got daughters, so some of the emotional experiences of daughters is tremendously challenging for, well, say me, who is a little bit more logic, reason based and that significant emotional fluctuations can be hard to. So how do you work through that? How do you relate to that?

And how do you do it in a way that your daughters and sons feel seen, heard, and understood? So I think that's. That's a real challenge.

So on that note, Drew, like, how did you do it and how do you do it in terms of so many of the things that you just talked about, not the least of which is the fact that you, you know, your early childhood experience with your dad, like, you didn't presumably have that role model that you could then turn to.

A lot of work, a lot of learning, a lot of making mistakes and then recognizing the mistakes, repairing the relationships from the mistakes that have been made, and re entering and trying again based off of new learning. You know, that old adage of, you know, learn something new, unlearn the old bad habit, and then relearn new ways to integrate the two.

And so that's really the process. It takes a lot of work. And back to the idea of feeling stretched.

You know, sometimes dads don't focus on that as an important aspect of their own growth and development.

And that's where they just resort to old patterns or resort to maybe influences that may not be as valuable for actually building a stronger relationship. And then they just say, well, I'm going to do that. And it continues to maybe not yield the results are looking for.

And then I think you get frustrated, you get discouraged, and then you also feel like, well, forget about it. I'm just going to let you know, mom or somebody else or, or deal with it. I don't know that many dads did, but sometimes that does happen.

You have certainly at this point presumably supported many dads who found themselves in a similar position. Whether it's an absentee f father or a difficult relationship with their own father.

The idea of how do those lingering wounds get managed as they parent their own child? You've talked about learning and the constant evolution piece. There's a huge self awareness piece that you alluded to as well.

But what kind of tips do you offer dads as small starting points they could consider in terms of how they foundationally begin their relationship or alter their relationship with their own children?

Yeah, that's a great question. I'd say that's maybe a nuanced response. I'll do my best. Number one, I think it's the recognition that you have to process your own stuff.

You know, you've got to recognize what may be your past upbringing has left you with.

And if there's anger, if there's resentment, if there's bitterness, if there's unforgiveness, if there's, you know, confusion, if there's sadness, if there's grief, you've gotta be able to name them and you've got to be able to then actually process them in healthy ways. So maybe you've done that work already, which is great.

So then, you know, if you haven't, your children will most certainly bring it out of you in ways and in moments you may be least expected.

And I would say, whereas dads often beat themselves up or others beat them up, if they make the mistake as a result of, you know, being triggered by their child, it's actually an opportunity for you. You should see it as that and say, okay, now I know there's something there that I haven't actually resolved. Now I can begin going to work on this.

And then as I work on it, I will know and I'll, I'm certainly going to be challenged again. I will know how to be able to address it better.

So you know that that starts the process, identifying those emotions, working through, resolving them so that they don't show up in ways you don't want them to show up.

When your children naturally push your buttons, then from there, I think it's, you know, building some form of support and people around you who recognize and understand your goals and can support your efforts and build some accountability into it. So community, I think, is tremendously important. That's something that we do at Gentle.

It's very important to help surround fathers with that support as well as helping give practical, tangible skills on how to engage and relate to others, primarily our children, in healthy ways. And that's built off of an understanding what does a healthy relationship look like?

So you need to understand some of those healthy relationship fundamentals as well. Respect, honesty, you have clear communication boundaries. Those types of things very crucial, too.

Let's switch gears just a little bit and talk about the manosphere. Certainly a concept that increasingly garners headlines in Canada and around the world.

The idea of online spaces that are actively spreading toxic masculinity. It's having a real influence on many families and certainly on young men.

I wonder, is this something that you're hearing about from your clientele and your audience? And if so, what are some of the stories or examples that stand out for you about the manosphere that you can share with us that you've heard?

Yeah, I'll be honest, Leon, when you sent this information to me, that was the first that I'd really heard of it. Maybe that's part of me because I'm. I tend not to pay too much attention to a lot of what's popular or what, but is often in the mainstream media.

So I. I'm not sure that there's much I can say if there are dads out there who are experiencing it.

For me, the focus for what we do and what I do is really helping fathers understand what I've been sharing so far. Healthy relationship fundamentals of how do you communicate and connect with other person in. In reasonable ways?

And how does the research around fathers and child development and understanding your child's needs and being able to meet those needs at certain points and ages and stages is really, for me, how you do.

And if I, if I can in some way try and offer a response to the question built off of some of the research is, you know, when you have a strong relationship characterized by a warm, caring, you know, connected between a father and a child, those are very significant protective factors from external influences or from even things as significant as trauma.

And so that's why for me, the focus is always on how do you help Fathers build that strong, connected, warm, loving relationship with their children where there's trust, where there's understanding, where there's empathy, where there's, you know, essentially strong influence.

You know, when a child is, you know, using the old attachment there, when a child feels strongly attached to a caregiver, mom or dad or both of them, then they're much more apt to want to follow and be connected to you and make choices that remain and keep that connection going.

And so the more the fathers can demonstrate that they're trustworthy and that their children value their, their relationship and their influence in their life, I think that's the hu, the best guidance in terms of countering some of these unhealthy influences as well as what you model in your own life and in your own relationships that your parents get or your children get to see on a day to day basis.

What would you say to a dad though, who maybe is trying to do all the things you just said is trying to really model healthy masculinity.

But the fact of the matter is, is we're surrounded by many examples of the opposite and you know, trying to turn off that influence, shut that out, you know, clear out that noise is a challenge for many people if it's in their face. So what are, you know, just because you brought it up in terms of, of how you presented that, what would you say to that father?

Yeah, then I would say depending on age and stage of your child is, you know, what level of, I'll say boundaries do you need to establish around, you know, what content your children are consuming, if there is an opportunity for that, because then that you take a little bit of a protective role.

The other thing is if children are older for me, you know, when, when, especially when the adolescent, teenage, you're doing much more what I would call coaching, ideally if you're doing it well, because you're helping them develop critical thinking skills, you're helping them self reflect, you're helping grow their own personal awareness and the, how they're going to then show up and interact with others and what are the, the choices that they're making on a day to day basis that are going to help them do that better or are actually going to hinder them and take them away.

So my advice to a dad who's in that situation is look at the boundaries that you can establish that are healthy as a protective factor reasonably and then how can you begin to coach your child to critically evaluate the choices that they're making and how they're showing up and how it influences others or not. And because at the end of the day, they are becoming their own person.

And the more that you can support them in becoming solid decision makers, grounded in principles and values and developing character, that's going to help them do the things you hopefully are showing them, then they're going to want to make mistakes. So be there as also a soft landing pad.

You know, I would much rather my children, my, my teenagers or early teens make mistakes when they're here at home that we can, you know, surround them with love and support and understanding, but also critically evaluate and give them some practical ways to make better decision moving forward than not. So I think that's the other part of it.

When they make mistakes, it's not about a heavy hand or it's about learning and helping them get back up to be able to keep going and make better decisions moving forward.

You are also a leadership coach. And I wonder, how do you help dads go about reframing leadership not just in the workplace, but more importantly at home? What does that look like?

Yeah, I think first and foremost it looks like leading yourself first. You know, the things that I, I'm sharing, and not that I'm the only example, but, you know, I want to be able to model it first.

I want to be able to demonstrate and have credibility with whoever it is that I'm leading. And so I need to be able to walk the walk or walk the talk, whatever you want to say. So that for me is step one. You know, you've got to.

If you want your children to be disciplined, you need to be disciplined. You want your children to be respectful, you need to be respectful. You want your children to listen, you need to listen to them.

So first and foremost, it starts with me as dad, am I doing what I'm saying that I want to be doing? Then from there it's about, how do you build? You know, John Maxwell is the foundation for my leadership philosophy.

So essentially, actually borrow from John and try and apply it as best as I can in my life. And foundationally, you know, it's about relationships. You know, his definition of leadership. Leadership is influence.

Nothing more, nothing less, you know. And what is influence? Well, influence is the ability to, I think, build trust. And if your children trust you, then you have influence with them.

If they don't trust you, they don't have influence. The other element of this is safety. Emotional, psychological safety.

Can I bring my fears, my ideas, my counter arguments, the things that I think I disagree with you on to you and we can have an open, honest, frank conversation. And I not feel judged, chastised, ridiculed or manipulated to go to your point.

So to me, that's the foundation in terms of one, you have to model yourself. Two, you have to build solid, healthy, constructive, trustworthy relationships with those around you.

And then from there we can build, you know, additional things based on goals, aspirations, and leading in terms of your family and, and working collaboratively. I, I can't leave this out, sorry. Collaboratively with your co parent or with your spouse. I mean, I think that's foundational and so important.

You created connected dads for many reasons, but presumably to address a gap for dads, as we've kind of talked about in different ways here, what would you say makes it different from other parenting or coaching programs that currently exist?

That's a great question. So for me, it's about the community and it's about being surrounded by others who have a similar desire but don't have all the answers.

And I'm, you know, poster child for that. Don't have all the answers.

My goal is to continue learning and surrounding myself with others who have a different idea, different perspective, or different experiences that I can say, hey, you know, you're really good at this. Can you tell me more about that?

So I think there's an element of humility, but what makes it different is it's about community and surrounding yourself with others who have talent, skills, abilities that supplement you, but also can have this shared understanding of, you know, the, the fatherhood experience and how do we then grow collectively towards all of our goals.

In terms of.

What would you say to a father listening to this interview about taking the steps to change their belief or mindset in terms of how they show up for their family? If it's something they feel like they are struggling with, they want to improve, they have the self awareness to take the steps to address it.

What would you say in terms of offering, you know, just a tip or just a piece of advice about how to make a small change to allow that to happen?

Yeah, well, I mean, first you just got to do it right? So reach out.

If there's a resource, a person, a friend, a mentor, you know, somebody, your church, whatever it is, reach out and say, hey, I'd like to talk about this or I'd like some support in this, you know, absolutely do that. There was something that came up as you're sharing, but it's totally gone out of my mind now. So step one, you just gotta do it. And then.

Oh, the second part is, whatever is one simple change you can make. Just do it.

And right now, you know, if fatherhood and your relationship with your children is important, then the simplest thing you can do is dedicate 10 minutes a day, just 10 minutes a day of uninterrupted one on one time with your child, where your goal is to simply put everything away, your phone work, everything else, and literally sit across from them or be across on them in their space, eye to eye, face to face, smiling, observing, asking questions and listening as best you can or playing with them for those 10 minutes a day. That, to me, are two simple things you could do.

You have five kids and we've talked about, you know, your childhood, the world we live in today, all the different unique challenges and pressures affecting parents and specifically dads.

In this conversation, you know, what gives you hope about this generation of fathers who are contending with so many different pieces coming at them as our mothers and the sons and daughters that they are trying to raise?

Yeah, what gives me hope is the number of dads who are actively reaching out, who are actively seeking these resources, who are actively connecting and building, you know, their own communities or building their skills or building their knowledge or just building their own health and well being because their role of father matters significantly to them. So that, to me, that gives me hope. You know, there are, there are opportunities and we're are doing, we're doing our best.

I'm doing my best to be able to, you know, put those opportunities out there for dads so they can be supported in the ways that they need to be supported in the ways that they want to be supported, so that they can, you know, fulfill that, that heart's desire of being the dad that they've always wanted to be.

Drew Soleyn, founder of Connected Dads and director of dad Central Ontario, thank you so much for your time and your insight today.

You're very welcome, Lianne. Thank you so much for the opportunity for the conversation.

To learn more more about today's podcast guest and topic, as well as other parenting themes, visit whereparents talk Comfortable.