Slow Summer: The Benefits of Unplugging and Embracing Boredom

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Welcome to the Where Parents Talk podcast. We help grow better parents through science, evidence and the lived experience of other parents.

Learn how to better navigate the mental and physical health of your tween teen or young adult through proven expert advice. Here's your host, Lianne Castelino. Overwhelm, over scheduling and little downtime are commonplace in many families today.

So what could the exact opposite look like? And what are some of the potential benefits for kids and parents? Welcome to Where Parents Talk. My name is Lianne Castelino.

Our guest today is a writer, a columnist, and a copywriter. Pam Lobley is also a former actress and comedian as well as an authority.

Her most recent book is called why Can't We Just what I Did When I Realized My Kids Were Way Too Busy. Pam is a mother of two young adults and she joins us today from River Edge, New Jersey. Thank you so much for making the time.

Oh, I'm so happy to be here.

You know, what a fantastic topic in terms of the relevance and the timeliness of this. It seems like we've been on this trajectory as parents for some time with respect to over scheduling and scheduling and calendars and all of that.

How would you sort of describe in general terms where we are on this topic today from your vantage point and what you're seeing?

Well, I feel like it's something we're all facing really head on. I've noticed with amusement over the past week or so.

I've seen articles and stuff on social media about parents letting their kids have what they're calling a summer of rot, like kid rotting. And it's kind of a fun, ironic way of saying, hey, I'm just going to let my kids, you know, flake off and, and do nothing.

But I think it's, it might be an idea whose time have, has come. I think maybe families, and particularly mothers are just, we've had enough. There's too much scheduling, there's too much coordinating.

I mean, you feel like if you don't return the email for the Sports camp within 10 minutes, it's going to be full, your kid's going to lose their place. It's really, it's a lot of pressure.

And I also think that maybe we're seeing some of the downside of that over scheduling with our kids, our kids behavior, our kids development, which maybe gives us the courage to say, well, let's do it, let's do it differently. Then let's try something different.

So you were one of those moms who felt overwhelmed. This is a little while back. Take us through the moment that led up to you feeling like something had to change.

Okay? So there were actually two moments. So the first one happened when it was in the spring, like, we're all planning our busy summers in the spring.

And I was really at a loss for what I was going to do with my two kids at the time, the two boys, ages 7 and 10. And I asked a friend of mine, what are you going to do with your kids? What are you guys doing?

But later I started thinking about that, and I thought, well, why couldn't I do that? Like, why not? And in the middle of that is when the second moment came. I was tucking my kids in, and they shared a room at the time.

And my older one, Sam, started crying, like we were having our little good nights, you know, like, you do. That takes so long. And. And he started crying. And I said, my gosh, what is the matter? And he said, I never have time to just play.

This kid was 10 years old, okay? So between his homework pressures, his whatever sports schedule he had, he probably played Little League like, once a week.

I think I had him in piano lessons. So, you know, little piano lessons.

You should be practicing whatever the things were, all those adult activities that we were signing them up for, instead of him just goofing around the neighborhood with his friends. Those were not play to him.

And the outlet of play that was going to be, I'm in my room with Legos, or I'm in the backyard with a costume and a sword, and a friend comes over. All that crazy, inventive play. There was no time in his schedule, and it was really bothering him.

And I felt like the worst mother because I had no idea. He seemed pretty happy and normal to me. And also, everyone around us was doing the same thing.

So that really made me take a step back and say, okay, well, he's not happy, and I'm feeling a little overwhelmed. What can we do differently? And I think that's what really gave me the courage to say, all right, let's try something totally new.

So when you look back on it, like, what was the tipping point? Was it your son, you know, articulating that to you that you said, you know what, that's it.

I think that was the, I think that was the thing that felt like I had permission to do it, like I wanted to do it.

And I talk in the book a little bit about how my husband and I, you know, the kids would come home from school and there'd be activities and then I would come up with something for dinner that we would all like eat hastily and run out the door to something else.

And then there'd be homework and then everybody needs to take a bath and get ready for bed and we would just collapse at like some say nine o' clock at night. And we would just look at each other and say, we've got to be doing something wrong. This just doesn't, I mean, it's not like we had teenagers.

Our kids were little. How was it supposed to be so pressured all the time?

So I was thinking about that, but then I think seeing directly that my kids were not happy and when I looked more closely too at their behavior, I was able to see there was a lot of pushback, There was a lot of whining, there was a lot of trouble getting out the door. There was a lot of just crankiness, non compliance. And I think it's because they were just too stressed out. And I totally could see that now.

But while I was in the thick of it, again, you're going with the flow. And because you're doing what everyone else is doing, you just assume it's your only option.

Well, and then when you decide when you have that wake up call and that tipping point and in your mind you're like, I've got the self awareness to make a change. You also have to have a strategy and an approach, whether it's survival or success or both.

Right.

What does that look like for you?

I think it looked like a balance of survival and success. I mean, I wanted like my number one goal was can we just have fun and enjoy each other?

Like I was not, I definitely was not one of those moms that was worried about my kids falling behind. I was sick of hearing about falling behind. Like they're not going to fall behind, they're seven. So we don't have to worry about that.

But I was concerned, like, are we enjoying family life? Like, I get that it goes fast and so not that every day is going to be roses, but are we doing fun things? Am I getting to enjoy my motherhood?

Are we feeling like we laugh every day, we have fun every day? So that was a part of it. Like, let's get back some of the joy into our lives.

And then also for me personally, I really needed a break from the pressure and to just feel like I'm sick of feeling like I'm not doing it right all the time. Like, let's all just dial it back. So I think my goal was just erase the schedule and take it as it comes.

And hopefully by the end of the summer we'll feel really rejuvenated and ready for the school year.

So take us through what steps you took, Pam, to make that happen. Like after you had that comment from your son, did you and your husband talk about it? Did you come up with a plan?

Did you have to change your work schedules in order to accommodate an unstructured summer with two young boys?

Yes, definitely. So I talked about with my husband and he was fine with it. I mean, he worked out of the home all day so it didn't necessarily affect him as much.

But for myself, yeah, I changed. I was working. I was working at home, which was unusual in those times because I'm a freelance writer.

So I was able to adjust my schedule like everybody does.

I worked before they woke up in the morning and maybe after they went to bed, I would let them play video games for a certain amount of time each day while I would work and then I had to dial back the rest. So if there was, you know, professional goals that I had, maybe they had to wait or just take longer. So yeah, I definitely made some adjustments.

Also we didn't have. And this was another kind of benefit in a way. Expensive camps and tons of classes were not an option anyway.

So I took advantage of the resources that we have here in town, which is we have a town pool which is extremely affordable at the time most people joined it. So that was a great resource to go to every day.

There were a fair amount of friends and some stay at home moms or part time moms, so we could kind of arrange play dates and dates at the playground.

And then beyond that, honestly my strategy was it's going to be okay if they're bored, it's going to be extra okay that it's their job to figure it out. And if I have to take them with me to errands and do that, they'll have to cope. And. And let's See where that leads us. That.

And that strategy worked pretty well. Like I said, I had a structure where I worked in the morning, and they were allowed to get up and watch TV or play video games.

So what were your son's reactions when you told them that this is what was going to happen that particular summer?

Joy and glee. In fact. We would get the. Like, the stuff would come home in the backpack. Who wants to do chess camp? Who wants to take enrichment classes?

And they would be like, no. You know, it was like a game. No. And then I would throw it in the trash. And they were so excited.

They were just excited to do nothing and play, honestly.

So take us through that.

Like, when you're on that parent treadmill of scheduling and figuring out these activities and trying to make sure that they're not missing out and all of these other things, to then kind of go cold turkey on that and dial it back is a different headspace entirely. Did the thought that you might have been wasting the summer for your boys ever cross your mind? And if so, how did you deal with that?

I definitely had many moments of insecurity. You know, this happens to all of us, especially on social media.

You think you're doing something right, and then you see somebody doing it differently or quote, unquote, better, and, like, it takes the wind out of your sails so quickly.

So, yeah, there were times when they were bored and there was no one to play with because, of course, everybody else was in their scheduled activities, and I would feel guilty, and I would feel like, am I taking their friends away or was this a bad idea? I definitely.

And honestly, there were times that they were sick of each other because they had each other to play with, and they were pretty good playmates, but that's not enough. You need friends, too. And also, there were times when it was more work for me because I. It's easy.

If they're in camp all day, you don't have to decide what to do with them, but if they're home. So then I started thinking, like, how was this fun again for me?

Because I'm the one thinking, like, okay, well, it's raining, so we can't go to the pool, and you're sick. You know, we're climbing the walls with cabin fever, so what should we do? Should we go to a movie?

Should we try to find another family to hang out with? So There still was some planning on my part.

So then how did you get through those challenging moments, which I imagine were particularly pronounced in the first. First few weeks that you started?

Yeah, the. The first few weeks actually were easier because it was the gloss of something new. It was later when it. They would.

On really boring days when particular. My older one would say, is it too late to go to camp? So I, you know, I just. I just tried to be creative like we do in motherhood.

Well, let me see if we can have a project. Like, one thing, I'm sure.

I don't know if this is a thing in people's town, but curb shopping, when people throw out stuff and you can just put it in your car and bring it home. And a couple of times we did that. I got a desk and I said to my son, hey, let's set this up in the basement.

And we would try to do projects like that. My older son did go to Boy Scout camp for a week. That was the one thing that we kept on the schedule. And so that was actually a nice.

It was good for him, and it was good for me because I got time with my younger son, which he really loved. Like, the one on one was really easy after, you know, after juggling that. So that was really nice.

And then we also went on vacation for a week, so that helped. That was a rough week, though, when we got back from vacation and there was nothing to do. That was hard. But I can say also that they figured it out.

Like, the thing that was great about it was to see them say, well, let us just build a fort. Let us make up a puppet show with our stuffed animals. Let us go back in the backyard and just invent some games. And they did. And they were able to.

I think they were able to rediscover their own sense of autonomy. What do I do when an adult isn't telling me what to do? And at first that's thrilling. And then I think it got boring.

And then I think it got interesting.

Really interesting to hear you say that, because so much of what you've just outlined there, you know, building independence, creative thinking, like all of these things, there's studies all over the place on them in terms of how important it is in a child's development. And, you know, when we're over scheduling them, we're limiting their exposure to these things, and we may not realize it.

So then what would you say to a parent who is caught in the throes of that treadmill? We talked about just going and going and Going.

And we should add that when you were going through this social media, you know, and that person pressure wasn't as pronounced as it is currently. So what would you say to a parent in that circumstance?

Yeah, 100% about the social media. I feel really badly for parents now. And you know, probably the kids see it too.

They see like, well, they went on vacation or he's at this camp and the kids can get FOMO as well. As parents, I guess I would have to say that as hard as it is, it's really important to try to have the courage of your convictions.

And it is nice now that there's so many studies that show it's not only okay for them to be bored, it's really beneficial for them to be bored. And I think it's also great to see on social media so many moms pushing back and saying it's not my job to plan their day. I've had it.

So in some ways the social media might help a little bit. Maybe you can find some social media support for your kid rot summer.

But I think honestly the not so pleasant answer to here is it's hard, but you can do it.

And if you can remind yourself that you're really doing them, you're giving them a huge gift, really, by letting them be bored, letting them problem solve, Let them have those uncomfortable moments. I mean, we had them, you had them, I had them. Growing up. Remember how boring certain afternoons were? And mom and dad did not rush in to, to fix it.

We just had to figure it out.

And maybe during that time is when you realized, like, gee, I really kind of like drawing or I really, you know, like to just lay on my back and stare at the clouds and make up stories about them or what, whatever those things are that you come up with that don't really translate into glowing moments on social media, but they are so crucial to our mental health.

You alluded to a few of the changes that you saw in your sons as the summer unfolded, but I'm curious, was there anything that in particular that you saw with them that struck you during that summer?

I think the, the fact that they were less stressed out made them easier to deal with. Like less, less behavior issues. I would say yes, they bickered and wind. I mean, they're two boys.

If you, if anybody has two boys, you know what I'm talking about. So that was a lot of physicality and that type of thing.

But in terms of objecting to me or, or like it's time to get in the car, it's time to do your homework. It's time. I saw less pushback from that because I think they had other outlets where they.

They had their own creativity and their own autonomy, and it made them just more able to cope with the pressure of whatever their pressures were once they got back to school. So I. And I also would say that I. I think I trusted their creative impulses, their.

Whatever their play impulses were, and they started to trust their own, too. They started to learn and trust, well, what am I interested in? What do I like to do and what do I not like to do?

So, you know, it's interesting because we're talking about, like, how it impacted your sons, but then how did it impact you? And the way you parented having that unstructured summer with them around and you having to pivot and do things a bit differently.

Like, what did you learn about yourself as a parent?

Well, I learned that I'm the type of mom who really wants to enjoy the ride, and if other things have to fall by the wayside so that our family can. That's more important to me than the getting ahead. So that was one thing. And I also learned that it's really important.

It was important to look at them for who they were. I feel like before we stepped off the treadmill, there was a lot of conforming. Like, this is what you do.

You put your kids in this level of soccer and then this level of school and this type of homework. I remember when my older son was in fourth grade, they were assigning a lot of homework, and he couldn't do it.

And it wasn't his intellectual capability. He just could not be that compliant.

He was good all day in school, and then to have to come home and sit and do an hour of homework, it was just too much. And I called the teacher, like, a month in, and she was a very experienced teacher. I just wrote a note and I said, he can't do this. I'm sorry.

We're melting down. And she called me and she said, don't worry, he's not ready. Whatever he does, you record it, and he'll come up to speed. And you know what he did?

Within six months, it was totally fine. He just needed that extra space. And so that whole summer taught me, like, wow, look what happens when you give them the space.

And that really helped me. As we got older, all through middle school and high school, I was able to say, okay, not that for them right now, and that's okay.

They don't have to be the same thing. That everybody else is.

So then along those lines, would you say that that unstructured summer in some ways reshaped your definition of what successful parenting looks like?

What a great question. Yes, yes. I think before really thinking it through, successful parenting looks like kind of just like what we see everywhere.

Oh, their kids got into this school, or look, they're playing that sport or wow, they're so well behaved or whatever. The thing is that, that we all the box we want to check. And instead I really started thinking about, well, what is right for. For them?

What is success? What does success mean to them and what does it mean to our family? Because really every family is different.

We all have different, slightly different, you know, personalities and goals. And I wanted our family to be successful in our own way.

Well, to tell you the truth, at the time I was working when I got the idea to write the book, I had a newspaper column in our paper and I thought it would be great to chronicle it over the summer. The newspaper editors disagreed, so that didn't work out. And I was still going to do the summer. That was never in doubt. But to my mind, I.

I thought, I think this is interesting. Like, I think this is an interesting experiment both from motherhood and from family life.

And so I thought, well, I'm going to chronicle it anyway and maybe it'll be a book. So it was. And. But it took me a couple years to write it. I did keep a journal every day or almost every day while the summer was to going. Going on.

And in a couple of years when I wrote the book, that's when I was able to, you know, really try to look for an agent and try to get it published. So it was a little bit of a journey.

So more than eight years have gone by, almost nine years at this point. So much has changed, not the least of which was the, you know, the pandemic and all of that.

You know, when we talk about this topic and the idea of having a summer like the one you experience when you look at it today, how different is that in your mind when you think about, like, if you were going to do that today?

Yeah, in some ways it's really the same, and in some ways it's different.

I think the biggest difference everybody would agree with is screens and the presence of screens, because I was able to just turn off the television and the video games, they didn't have personal devices. So that would be probably the biggest challenge and the biggest difference.

But I also think on the plus side, there's a huge awareness of how the over managing of childhood has been not a good thing. And I think that now if I were going to do it again, I would probably do it almost exactly the same.

But I think I might feel more empowered really knowing I was just going on my instinct. Now you have a lot of research and a lot of experts saying please let your kids play more. Please stop putting this pressure on them.

Not only is it not beneficial, it's actually the opposite. You're taking away opportunities from them when you do it.

So then along those lines, what would you say are some of the hidden costs of over scheduling kids today that perhaps the average parent who again is on that treadmill looking, looking at what everyone else is doing, may not understand?

Well, first of all, I would say maybe just stress on the family. Like I see a lot of stuff how the pressure on mothers is just out of control and mothers are, you know, their mental health is suffering.

It doesn't have to be like that. I think, I think it's like that because everybody's trying to keep up. That's what this over scheduling is about. We're all just trying to keep up.

We're so afraid, afraid that our kids aren't going to get into the right school and get the right job so that everything falls into place for their life. And believe me, you cannot control that stuff.

So, so I would say that the, the putting the enjoyment of your family, like experiencing the richness of family life is, is really important. And, and then the other thing is I think your children will. You asked me about the hidden costs.

I think that a lot of times kids cannot express the stress. It comes out through their behavior. They want to be successful, they want to please their parents, they want to keep up with their peers.

I think sometimes if we don't get in the way of that, if we don't stand between them and that schedule and them and those pressures that they, they might have some sort of.

Maybe they have some missed opportunities to learn independence, maybe they end up doing a lot of things that aren't that important to them, but they're doing them because everybody else is doing them. So I would say that the, one of the hidden cost of that is your actual child's individuality.

Really interesting. You know, there's so many fascinating aspects to your story.

So it's a social experiment in your own home. And then you can also measure the outcome. So take us through.

What are some of the things that you learned or you experienced as a family that summer that you continue to carry to this day?

Well, I learned that the way they learn and the way they grow is going to be individual. So, for instance, I talk about in the book how they really don't like reading. They were never big on reading.

I know a lot of boys don't love to read, and there's this idea that, wow, if you don't love to read, boy, you're gonna have a really hard time being successful in life and all. And I watched them, the way they played and how much they built with Legos and how they invented things, and I thought, they're going to be fine.

Okay. They don't love to read books, but I see their creativity, I see their intelligence, I see their resourcefulness.

It helped me to not worry about some of those aspects and to trust their own process and their development more.

And I think that was really important because when you get into middle school and high school, then you really start to worry about them, as are they keeping up, et cetera. And I think the fact that I was able to observe them so closely made me more comfortable with their development going forward.

You talked about your sons being 10 and 7 when this experiment started and or was happening that summer. Now they're 27 and 25. Do they ever talk to you about that summer or have it, has it come up ever again?

Well, it comes up a lot because I, you know, I do podcasts and I talk about the book and things like that, but I, I don't think that they really remember it very clearly in any specific way, particularly my younger one who was only seven, so. But they remember certain things that we did that summer. They remember that they were free.

They remember a lot of the silly maybe things that we did play wise. But the other thing too is that I didn't over schedule them for subsequent summers.

So I think it's not like, oh, let's go back to over scheduling next summer. We didn't. So it wasn't until really they were teens and they maybe got jobs or that they worked at a camp or something, that they had a busy summer.

So that maybe one of the reasons that it doesn't stand out is because from then on, I did try to keep our summers pretty lazy, for lack.

Of a better word, for parents who are listening to or watching this interview, who are on that treadmill, who maybe don't have the self awareness yet to really pinpoint why am I always so stressed out, tired and why are my kids whining and all of the rest of it?

What can you offer them as one tangible, small step that they could consider taking that may lead them to an unstructured sense summer for their child or children?

I would say the one thing you could do, and you could do it right now, is to just put some nothing on the calendar.

So no matter what your work schedule is or no matter what your family situation is, there's got to be some time on the weekend where there could be nothing that there is to do and let the kids fill it. And you may have to warn them, listen, we're going to try this. You get every Saturday from noon to 3 with absolutely nothing to do.

You can, you know, play with friends. You fill it, you decide, but no screens and no adult supervised things and see how that fits. See, you know, see where it goes from there.

We live in a time where the majority of parents out there are not in the category that you found yourself in, which was the unstructured summer. What gives you hope that where we are today may lead people to considering nothing on the calendar as you describe it?

Do you think we've hit a critical point in society with the mental health issues, et cetera, et cetera, where there really is not a lot of choice for many families?

I kind of hope that we have hit a critical point. Point. I kind of hope that we, we have turned the corner and enough quote, unquote, experts are saying dial it back for your kids.

I think that, that parents do listen to experts. We're all trying so hard to do the best we can.

And so I think that now that there's enough really knowledgeable voices saying that, yes, I think people will put, hopefully let them listen.

If somebody told you you could get your kid into Harvard by having an unstructured summer, you know how many parents would be lining up for the unstructured summer? We just all want that guarantee that everything's going to be great for our kids.

So I think that now that the research is out there, I think people have some more courage doing that. And I also hope, just mom to mom, that people step up as moms and say I deserve to relax a little bit.

This is too much pressure on me, and it doesn't need to be that way. We should be. My gosh, we wanted to be moms. We should be having fun.

Lots of really interesting food for thought. Pam Lobley, author of why Can't We Just Play? What I Did When I Realized My Kids Were Way Too Busy.

Thank you so much for your time and your insight today.

Thank you. It was great talking to you.

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