In a world ever-concerned with individual success and self-promotion, the concept of childhood narcissism is increasingly relevant.
“Narcissism is largely viewed as a disorder that’s untreatable in adulthood, but that doesn’t mean we can’t intervene before it becomes a full-blown disorder,” Dr. Mary Ann Little, clinical psychologist told Lianne Castelino, during an interview for Where Parents Talk.
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Welcome to Where Parents Talk. My name is Lianne Castelino. Our guest today is a clinical psychologist who has been practicing for more than 40 years. Dr. Mary Ann Little is also adjunct assistant professor at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical Center, and an author. Her latest book is called childhood narcissism, raising unselfish and entitled, empathetic children. Dr. Little is also the mother of two grown children. And she joins us today from Dallas, Texas. Thank you so much for taking the time.
Yes, it’s my pleasure to be here.
Certainly an eye opening title and subject matter when you put the world’s words childhood and narcissism together. What led you to wanting to write this book?
That’s a fascinating question. And I would tell you that I started because narcissism is generally thought to be an untreatable disorder. And it turns out that technically, you cannot diagnose anyone with a narcissistic personality disorder until the age of 18. And it struck me that if you can’t diagnose it until 18, and then it’s largely untreatable, Surely there must be something that we can do that predates that diagnosis, to change things so that children don’t grow up to become, if you will, solidly narcissistic.
I guess an appropriate place to start with that backdrop is defining narcissism and narcissistic behavior.
Yes, well, I will tell you one of the surprising things that I’ve learned as I’ve been giving lectures around for my book is that narcissism is actually a good thing. Most people don’t know that. But there is healthy narcissism. And then there is pathological narcissism. And in between, there are narcissistic tendencies and traits. And what happens is a full blown disorder is characterized by someone who is selfish, self centered, entitled, and lacking in empathy. The tragedy of that constellation of characteristics is, is that by definition, people with a full blown narcissistic personality disorder have disordered interpersonal relationships, while they can be married, or they might be a boss, they don’t have keep and maintain healthy relationships with others.
So narcissism in society continues to rise, what is contributing to this uptick?
Yes, I would tell you, there are two major influences around narcissism. The first is and I believe really quite worrisome is the cultural emphasis. I believe that the world we live in today, over values winning and success, and a number of not so healthy directives, be thin, Be beautiful, be rich, take what you can get. And with it, it sort of normalizes, don’t worry what you have to do to get there. And so if you hurt other people, or if you must treat them, you shouldn’t feel badly about that, because you got to the top. Those are all narcissistic values. And if we teach children in particular, that that that is the goal, and that that’s the way to get there. We’ve done something that’s not good for kids. Now, secondarily, I think parents are not immune to the same education from the culture, and what parent doesn’t want their child to be successful. And I think there’s a lot of misunderstanding about how do you actually contribute to a child’s success in a healthy way.
Let’s talk first as we break that down into what, you know, what are some signs of narcissism in a child? First of all, what kind of behavior do they exhibit that would show signs of this behavior?
Yes. What’s complicated about narcissism is is that certain qualities are to develop over the course of childhood. And what you should see is that children over time, are learning empathy. They’re coming becoming increasingly cooperative. They’re becoming concerned about the feelings of others and they’re demonstrating more mature coping skills. So you want to see some series of qualities developing at the same time that you want to see earlier qualities fate. And those include impulsiveness, aggressive responses, tantrums, up demands, demands for specialness and special treatment, and that should go down whereas if you will, these better, more adult desired qualities are coming on.
At what age is a child When these types of behaviors could manifest, and when should a parent intervene if they see this type of behavior on a consistent basis? And what should they be doing?
Well, I think you can see many of the signs of narcissism early on. But I, we can actually diagnose narcissists narcissism for research purpose purposes by the age of eight. So by seven and eight and nine, you can begin to start seeing trends. If it’s persisting into 1112. And 13, you’re increasingly concerned that they’re evident in preschool is not terribly worrisome. It’s that they don’t fade over the course of those pre elementary school age.
What does research say Dr. Little about the root causes and contributing factors to narcissistic behavior?
Well, we certainly don’t know all of the things, there’s some people that believes there may be a genetic component, but we do know and have documented the impact of specific parenting paradigms on the impact of narcissism. And the research has shown fascinating things like that. Parents who regard their children as special as superior to other children are actually building those kinds of self centered, superior attitudes that they ultimately don’t want to have in their children in later life. If you treat a child as special, it then does it really make sense if then you’re upset with them as they grow older, and they feel entitled to special treatment?
Absolutely. What other types of specific behavior or parenting approaches styles tendencies could lead to narcissistic behavior in a child?
Yes, well, it turns out, in my book, I researched all of the literature and one of the things that was most interesting that became very clear, is that it’s not one specific type of parenting that contributes to narcissism, but rather, there are four different constellations of characteristics. And the essential underlying principle is that parenting that contributes to narcissism takes any given value and either does too much or too little of it. Now, typically, when we think about parenting, we say be warm, because not being warm is good or be attentive, because not being attentive is not so good. But it turns out that if you’re too attentive, you can be too attentive, and you can be not attentive enough. So you’re really actually searching for the middle ground. And I call that middle ground parenting or moderation parenting. But with that in mind, let me tell you about the four different types of parents that do contribute to narcissism, or at least the research would suggest. One is the hovering directive parent, and that’s the one that sees the child is special and is very directive. There is the critical, harsh parent that tends to think my child is not measuring up, but they’re also putting in strict limits. There’s the indulgent, permissive parent that is treating the child as special but doesn’t really require much of them. And there’s the inattentive, disengaged parent that is really just sort of asleep at the switch and not particularly concerned. Now, ironically, it this can actually put be put together in a matrix. So treating a child is too special is problematic. treating them as if you will not special enough is problematic, being too limiting and too critical and directed as a problem as is being not directive enough or setting limits at all.
Parents listening to or watching this interview, may find themselves in one of those four descriptions that you just offered. What can you say to them about how to actively address that behavior against the backdrop of a narcissistic, potentially a narcissistic child?
Yes. Well, what you’re wanting parents to do is to realize is that the goal overarching LY is to love your child, but that there has to be some combination of loving them but not treating them as superior and also limiting them enough with appropriate limits, so that children are frustrated but not devastated. It is that combination of affection and if you will, demand or limit that has to come together in some sort of meaningful way. Otherwise, children are at risk for seeing themselves unrealistically and then really seeing themselves as superior which is at the heart of narcissism.
Dr. Little, can you take us through the research that you undertook to put together this book? Was there anything in there that even with your, you know, more than four decades of experience really gave you pause?
Yes, I’m actually my book, I did not conduct the research myself, what I did was a comprehensive review of the literature. And what surprised me was what was how many ways either theoreticians or researchers contemplated narcissism could be engendered in a child. And that was sort of like, well, this doesn’t make any sense. You can treat the child as too special. There’s data to suggest that and then there’s other theoreticians who said, Oh, but you can treat them too harshly. And so I was thinking, well, no way too harsh, too special. Too many limits, too few limits. And that’s what drove me to create this model of moderation. And I think it’s hard to really find the proper balance in the world in which we live, particularly because the demands on parents are, you better raise a child that can succeed in the world, it’s a dangerous world out there. And if you don’t do your job, your child will be left, you know, kind of in the dust, and every parent’s frightened by that.
Could you paint a picture for us as to what could occur if narcissistic tendencies or narcissistic behavior in childhood go unchecked? On addressed?
Yeah, what I would tell you is I’m going to tell you a couple of story in particular, just that many of these children will actually look practically perfect up for a period of time. And you may not see the impact of these weaknesses. The primary impact, I believe, is in a self concept. And the self concept doesn’t hold in the face of disappointment or frustration. And I tell the story in my book, and when I lecture about a child that I treated many years ago, who was practically perfect and admitted to an IPL was trying to get in an Ivy League school and make the waitlist. And when it when she didn’t get in, she started cutting herself. She saw me very, for a very short period of time, and as luck would have it, she got in off the waitlist, and she quit cutting herself. Now I thought something was wrong with this child, because I thought there was a fragility to her self concept. But the parents said, no, no, no, it was just that she didn’t get in Yale. I would learn later, that when she was in college, she had a steady boyfriend that lasted a year and a half, and he broke up with her. And when he broke up with her, she started cutting again. So that the vulnerability that was there would only show itself under certain sets of circumstances. But what it told us is that she couldn’t sustain a glow and bounce back from it. And what do we want our children to have? We want them to like themselves, but not have to be perfect, so that something doesn’t disrupt their entire life, when they when something doesn’t go their way.
Is there such a thing as it’s too late to stop a child from becoming a narcissistic adult?
I would tell you, I don’t believe so I believe there is a chance to change everyone. And I also would tell you, I also believe it’s possible to change adults. It’s not easily done. But I think with a willing participant, it can be done. I know because I’ve helped people do it. But I think it takes an extraordinary amount of commitment. And it’s harder to change. Because I would just tell you, most narcissists don’t believe there’s anything wrong with them. Most of them presented my practice as a couple. And, and she’s complaining about him. And he says, you know, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with me. It’s really just her. She’s too attentive to my needs things. I mean, she’s she’s out of balance. And what overtime you would find is that that pattern is persisted at work in his family or maybe with his siblings, where the specialness and the demandingness and the lack of empathy has cost him something all around. But convincing someone who thinks is everybody else that maybe they have a part to play is easier said than done?
Yeah, definitely. So how is a parent to take this information and turn it into something positive that they are aware of that they are addressing? You know, you’ve outlined four different styles that could be contributing factors to producing narcissistic children. It’s on the apptech. It’s increasing in the society we live in today. There are so many factors working against parents in particular, where does the parents start?
Well, I have some specific tips. And one of the cute ones I write about is I talk about Never underestimate the importance of or of treating a child as ordinary. Now that makes most people’s hair curl, you know, at the beginning, because they’re saying I don’t want an ordinary child but that truth of the matter is that being recognized as like everybody else, is the way to join humanity. It’s the way to become empathetic. If you’re like me, and I’m like you, we have a common bond. But if I’m superior to you, well, then what you don’t have much to contribute to my conversation would be what the narcissist would say. And that’s not what we want. What we want is children who are like everybody else in their mind’s eye. Now, parents will say to me, but does that mean you’re anti anti excellence? And I say, No, no, I am not talking about being anti Excellent. You can be excellent. in specific areas, you may be a talented artist, you may be a fast runner, you may be particularly good at writing. But it’s when it shifts from special gifts in certain areas, to I am overarching ly special, that’s when you get into trouble.
Let’s talk about that with relation or with respect to your practice. You’ve been in private practice for many years. What are you noticing in terms of trends among some of your patients and clients that would contribute to, you know, further validating this topic and the fact that there’s now a book that you’ve written on it?
Sure. That’s a wonderful question. Very clever. And I would just tell you that the truth of the matter is, is that I never said about to write a book on narcissism. But I practice in a relatively accomplished, well educated, financially secure part of the city. And I began to see more and more people that were married to narcissist children that were behaving narcissistically. So that after a period of time, I started learning about this, because I was seeing more of it. I was getting less people that were anxious or depressed, and more people that were struggling with people with personality disorders. So I got in through the backdoor. But I certainly would tell you that my years of practice, have said that I was set on the right track, because I do believe that it’s very much on the increase.
Now, you mentioned personality disorders, and narcissistic personality disorder is a mental health condition that can affect an adult, what can you tell us about when it is typically diagnosed?
Yes, so the personality disorders in narcissism particular cannot be diagnosed until the age of 18. And so we can see those tendencies and traits earlier, but you don’t get that diagnosis. Now, what I would tell you is, I think most often, it doesn’t present problems. For several years thereafter, you have to go to work and then be unable to get along with your boss, you have to be married for a while until your wife says I can’t do this anymore. Or you as a parent began to raise children that are proving to be the school bully, or proving to be sort of the difficult queen bee. I see it as early as I heard a story just a couple of weeks ago that was just talking about a little girl who was at school, and she had organized I think these are second graders, and basically there was a bench, and that it was called the bench club. And then she organized that only a handful of children could sit on that bench. Both she and interestingly, her mother, were surprised that that wasn’t going to be well received by the school. The school was going to say no, everybody can sit on the bench.
You know, it’s so interesting when you talk about bullying and some of the other things that you mentioned, because the average person is not going to make all of those connections and understand how they all relate to each other. But when you say like, you know, let’s say somebody doesn’t really truly understand the characteristics of a narcissist, but they understand a bully. Like how would you explain that that is a potential end result, byproduct, if you will?
Yes, behavior. Yes. Well, the number one thing that you see in bullying is that bullies typically want their way. And that is a classic sign of narcissism. narcissists. Want to be right, consider this sounds right, consider other people to be wrong. Bullies, by definition, mistreat other people, which means they’re unconcerned about the feelings of other so you can see the lack of empathy. And I would just tell you that bullies especially charismatic narcissists, are often hard to defeat because they exist. It’s such power that other children often fall in line. And I remember a little boy who said to me one time, his, his good friend was being terribly bullied by a child in a prestigious kind of prep school. And the kid looked at me and he said, I said, Well, did you think about standing up for this child that your friend? And he said, let’s think about it. He said, What do you want, Doc? He said, Do you want one dead dog or two. And he knew what would happen, the research is pan that out so that no individual can really stand up to a bully, new interventions that have to do with bullying has to do with getting the whole group to stand up, so that we don’t have just one or two dead dogs, that they’re too powerful. And the bully can’t persist in the face of that.
Dr. Little it really does strike me that a lot of what you’re talking about with respect to parents, and the subject matter is really about self awareness. Yeah. And, you know, not everybody has that self awareness. And let’s say, you know, you’re starting to see behaviors that you question in your child, at what point? Should a parent consider professional help, either for themselves or for their child?
Yes, I think what you’re asking parents to do is to look at patterns without prejudice. And if you begin to see a pattern, where little Bobby is getting crossways, with one kid in first grade, and another kid in third grade, or that, you know, he’s angry about certain things, not going his way, that I would recommend that you check it out with teachers, but in an unbiased way not to come in and say, Bobby’s really not a problem, is he? I think you want to go in and say, Have you ever seen any patterns with him? How do you think he’s doing getting along with other children, and that you’re open to what they tell you. I think it takes a very mature person to be able to see flaws in their child, because none of us want that. And I think you want to have that checked through people in school, through perhaps counselors at summer camp, or even, you know, just good friends, where you know how to how to make a play with your son over the weekend.
There will be parents who watch and listen to this interview, who will be from a traditional parenting generation, and others who will be what we call modern parents. Is there a happy medium, let’s call it in terms of, and you’ve kind of outlined earlier, you know, what it takes to sort of avoid narcissistic parenting and certainly producing narcissistic children, but is one style or another or a blend of those two types of styles better?
Well, I would tell you that I feel that in general, as parenting goes, you want to hit that middle ground, because I think you don’t want to be too our research shows this, you don’t want to be too authoritarian. And you don’t want to be too lacks. There’s been a huge amount of research that’s been reinforced and replicated many, many times over. And I think what I would tell you is, in the same way, that there’s gentle, you can be too gentle, in the same way that you can be too harsh. And I think it is that combination of love, with limits, in a in a kind of thoughtful, predictable way. And I think it’s more important that you get that balance right than that you own or consider yourself a part of one particular type, you know, of parenting.
When you talk about setting limits and self regulation that is traced back to so many different other, let’s call it issues or challenges around parenting, what would you say to a parent who, let’s say has been lacks in that category, you know, isn’t as on top of it as they should be? For whatever reason, maybe they, they were raised in a very authoritarian environment, and now they’re doing the exact opposite for their own child. How can you articulate the importance of setting limits, specifically as it relates to what we’re talking about here? And childhood narcissism?
Yes, most people don’t really understand that setting limits is actually if you will encourage a psychological development. children as they start out, have to believe that they can rule the world that’s what healthy narcissism is about, you know, I can do this. I can do that. But frustration when it gets introduced, forces children to deflate, how fantastic they are. I’m not as well as I thought I was. She’s not going to let me spend the night out. She’s not gonna let me punch my sister, whatever it might be. And that, that learning that frustration is the opportunity to learn how to self regulate. And it deflates the self concept so that you’re not superior. You’re more like everybody else, you’re just you know, the rules apply to everybody. And, and that softens the self concept. It’s some people actually call it a deflates grandiosity, you can’t start off and say, I’m King Kong, at some point, the limits say, oops, I’m not as powerful as I thought, I’m not King Kong I’m just a kid.
You know, it’s, it’s really interesting because of the times that we live in that there are so many examples, externally of narcissistic behavior, whether you’re talking about leaders, celebrities, etc, etc. To turn off that noise. To focus on what you’re trying to do in terms of raising your own family is a challenge for many parents, depending on the family dynamic, etc, etc. Dr. Little What do you want parents to leave with from your book?
I want them to leave with they are the most important thing in a child’s life, and that they can set the path for their child through love and affection and appropriate limits. I think I want them to de idealize winning and being a superstar and let their children know that love and affection remain constant, either with performance or without excellent performance. Ironically, it’s accepting them as they are that often is the jet fuel for extraordinary performance, not the other way around.
Dr. Mary Ann Little, author of childhood narcissism. So appreciate your time and your perspective today. Thank you so much.
Thank you.
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An adjunct assistant professor at the University of Texas Southwestern Medical with more than 40 years of experience in her field, Dr. Little delved into the early signs and roots narcissism in childhood and what parents can do to prevent it. Her findings are captured in her latest book, Childhood Narcissism: Raising Unselfish and Empathetic Children.
“It struck me that if you can’t diagnose it until 18, and then it’s largely untreatable, surely there must be something we can do that predates that diagnosis,” she says.
Narcissism in children manifests in behaviours like a lack of empathy, impulsiveness, and entitlement. These signs are often visible as early as preschool but become concerning if they persist into adolescence.
Parenting and Narcissism: The Fine Line
Dr. Little points to two major influences contributing to the rise of narcissism in children: cultural values and parenting approaches. “Our culture glorifies success at all costs, pushing values like winning, beauty, wealth, and entitlement,” she explains. This often leads children to believe that achieving these ideals is more important than how they treat others. “If you hurt others along the way, it’s seen as acceptable because you made it to the top,” she warns, emphasizing how dangerous this mindset is for young, impressionable minds.
Her research highlights the crucial role that parenting plays in either mitigating or exacerbating narcissistic tendencies.
Parenting Styles That Foster Narcissism
Dr. Little’s research identifies four parenting styles that can contribute to narcissistic behaviour:
- Hovering Directive Parent: Overly protective and sees the child as superior.
- Critical, Harsh Parent: Sets strict limits but can be overly critical.
- Indulgent, Permissive Parent: Treats the child as special without demanding responsibility.
- Inattentive, Disengaged Parent: Lacks involvement and concern for the child’s development.
The key, she says, is moderation. “Parenting that contributes to narcissism either goes too far in one direction or not far enough in another. It’s about finding the middle ground—what I call ‘moderation parenting.'”
For example, parents who praise their children excessively and make them feel superior to others may unknowingly foster a sense of entitlement. On the other hand, parents who set harsh, unrealistic limits can also contribute to the problem by creating a child who feels inadequate and overcompensates with narcissistic behaviour. Dr. Little stresses the importance of balance: “Children need love and affection, but they also need limits that frustrate them in a healthy way.”
The Impact of Unchecked Narcissism
The consequences of unchecked narcissistic behaviour in children can be severe, and often, these traits don’t fully reveal themselves until adulthood. Dr. Little recounts a story from her practice about a seemingly perfect young woman whose fragile self-concept fell apart after facing disappointments. After failing to get into her dream Ivy League school, the young woman engaged in self-harm, a behaviour that resurfaced after a romantic breakup. “What we want is for our children to like themselves but not have to be perfect. They need to be resilient and able to bounce back from disappointment,” says the mother of two.
If left unaddressed, childhood narcissism can evolve into a narcissistic personality disorder, which can have devastating effects on relationships, careers, and personal well-being in adulthood.
Strategies for Parents: Raising Empathetic, Well-Balanced Children
Dr. Little offers specific tips for parents to help steer their children away from narcissistic tendencies. One of her suggestions is to “never underestimate the importance of treating your child as ordinary.” While this may sound counterintuitive in a world that prizes exceptionalism, Dr. Little clarifies that children need to feel like they belong. “Being ordinary doesn’t mean you’re not excellent. It means you’re part of a community, and that’s the foundation for empathy.”
She emphasizes that parents should encourage their children’s talents without making them feel superior to others. A child who is told they have special gifts in certain areas, such as art or sports, can still be grounded and humble if they are raised with the understanding that everyone has something valuable to contribute.
Dr. Little says she has observed an increase in narcissistic tendencies among children in affluent and high-achieving families, which led her to write this book. “Parents in today’s society feel pressured to raise successful children, and sometimes that pressure leads to pushing them too far or indulging them too much.”
Finding the Right Balance in Parenting
Dr. Little underscores the importance of self-awareness for parents. It’s vital for them to honestly assess their parenting styles and recognize patterns of behaviour in their children. If parents notice troubling signs like persistent entitlement or lack of empathy, Dr. Little advises consulting teachers, counsellors, or even friends for an objective perspective.
Her message to parents? “You are the most important person in your child’s life. Through love, appropriate limits, and de-emphasizing the idea that winning is everything, you can help your child grow into a healthy, empathetic adult.”
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