by Katherine Martinko
“The broad impact of technology came up again and again as I researched generational differences… and then I realized that technology isn’t just smartphones. It’s not just computers. And it’s not just social media. It’s everything. It’s washing machines and better medical care and faster transportation. You think about how much the world has changed in the last 200 years, or even 50 years, or even 20 years. And I realized that the most important thing in creating generational differences [is] how technology has really changed how we live.”
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Welcome to where parents talk. My name is Lianne Castelino. Our guest today is a professor of psychology at San Diego State University. Dr. Jean Twenge is also the author of more than 180 scientific articles and seven books during her more than 30 year career. Her latest book is called generations, the real differences between Gen Z, millennials, Gen X boomers and the silence and what they mean for America’s future. Dr. Dwayne gay is also a mother of three. And she joins us today from San Diego. Thank you so much for making the time.
Thanks for having me.
There are currently six generations coexisting in North America, which is a first in the history of the world. Why would you say that this fact is significant?
Well, partially because we have so much misunderstanding across generations right now. And that is because mostly, because technological change has really sped up. So that’s why we have so many generations because people live longer. And the space of generations has grown shorter, because of the technological changes, and also means the generations communicate in totally different ways. There are very few members of the silent generation or boomers who are on tick tock, I can ask for Gen Z lives, for example.
Absolutely. Now you have been researching this topic, as we mentioned, for well over three decades. And I wonder what has struck you most over that span of time in this area of study?
Well, there’s there’s been so many things. So when, and, you know, when I was working on generations on the new book, I was really struck by the broad impact of technology, because that had come up again, and again, you know, as I researched generational differences, particularly with Gen Z, and how the smartphone really changed the lives of teens, in particular, how they started spending so much more time, online, and less time with their friends in person, and then how that coincided with a mental health crisis. So that was something I worked on with my book, IGN that came up six years ago. And then I was realizing now you know, technology isn’t just smartphones. And it’s not just computers. And it’s not just social media, it’s everything. It’s washing machines, and better medical care and faster transportation. And you think about how much the world has changed in the last last 200 years, or even 50 years, or even 20 years. And I realize that’s the basic route, that is the most important thing in creating generational differences is how technology has really changed how we live.
So building on that point, then what create key criteria from each generation Do you believe defines that generation.
So I take a little bit of a different approach than most folks who look at generations because it’s very common to find online, let’s say a list of events that shaped each generation. And we have sure those major events like wars and pandemics have an effect, but not as much as the changes in technology because those changes in technology really affect day to day lives. So I am just not as much of a proponent of saying, you know, here’s the characteristics of each generation. And because things change literally, you know, in a linear way, you know, over time. So for example, individualism or focus on the self has impacted boomers, it also impacted Gen X and millennials and Gen Z just in different ways. So I don’t usually do as much as a lot of people do those specific characteristics of each generation.
Let’s delve a little bit more into technology which you’ve brought up and the different aspects of technology and its evolution. What are some areas of technology along the generational lines, and raising children today that you believe parents need to be aware of as it relates to these different generations?
Yeah, so you know, one, one thing we should establish is that kids who are in say, middle school and up are Gen Z, but those born about 2013 and later, probably we don’t know exactly yet, but are probably gonna be The next generation, the post Gen Z generation, some people call them Gen alpha, I call them polars, after melting polar ice caps and political polarization, two things very prominent right now, which I think will have a big impact going forward. But I think the concerns for both of those generations are similar, that childhood and adolescence are fundamentally different than they were for Gen Xers, who are usually the parents of teenagers, and then all but also for millennials, who are usually going to be the parents of the younger kids. That those are two generations that most of the time when you were a kid, you grew up outside and hanging out with your friends in person, millennials, maybe there would have been some AOL and other things, you know, going on there, and adolescence and flip phones and things like that. But for the most part, it was childhood, adolescence, adolescence, that in the real world, with other people face to face. And that’s really not as true anymore. So that’s one of the biggest challenges in parenting right now, is trying to figure out well, how much screen time is too much? How much do I have to worry about that? And what can I do to try to help my kids be healthier, physically and mentally. And so yeah, I do have three kids, myself, they’re 1714 and 11. And so, you know, it’s just my lived experience and my family as well as something I research. And I think that’s what we have to do to try to find a balance with technology, that it’s true, we’re not going to go back to 1985, or 9095. But we also can’t just give up and say, hey, you know, kids are gonna be on their phones, 24/7. And that’s fine, because it’s not fine. We have an adolescent mental health crisis, we have to think about these things. So I’ve, you know, lots of things to think about here. But the two most important are this, no phones, or devices like tablets in the bedroom overnight. For our kids, or for us to actually it’s best to get them out of the bedroom entirely when we’re trying to sleep. tons of studies show that people don’t sleep as well, when their devices in their bedrooms, just too tempting to look at them in the middle of the night. But even if they’re off, even if they’re on Do Not Disturb, they disrupt sleep. So that’s my number one suggestion for everybody. And then the second, try to put off everything around technology for as long as possible, put off getting your kids a smartphone. So give them a flip phone, or give them a phone designed for kids, like a gab phone or a Treme phone or a pinwheel phone, that you can call and text and take pictures. And usually that’s it. Sometimes you can download optional apps, but there’s no internet access and no social media. So in my house, the rule is you don’t get a smartphone until you get a driver’s license. Well, and how’s that going? Going pretty well, so far. Yeah. So because my oldest is 17. So she got her driver’s license. But a month after she turned 16. And we actually put it off even longer for her, she actually had a flip phone for a while now, even after she got her driver’s license. But you know, with the Maps app and other things, it just was increasingly impractical for her to just have that flip phone. So she got the smartphone. And I’m really glad that we put it off. And she still doesn’t have social media. So that’s another thing and try to put that off as long as possible. I think most people don’t know that kids aren’t supposed to be on social media at all until they’re 13. It’s actually the law. And it’d be even better to put it off until 16 Or even older, because 13 is a terrible age to try to introduce social media.
Absolutely. And that is a whole separate topic. Certainly when you talk about technology that is affecting all of us all the time. Let’s get back to your book of generations for a minute, you looked at data sets, two dozen of them to be precise, spanning from the 1940s Until today, equivalent to data about of about 39 million people. What was your impetus for taking on this type of research to create your finished product, this book generations?
It really was to try to help us all understand each other better. Because when you think about generational differences, there’s so much misunderstanding. There’s so many myths or so many stereotypes, there’s so much finger pointing. And it’s it’s really counterproductive because really we’re trying to do whether we’re you know, a manager in the workplace or a parent or grandparent is just trying to understand the perspective of someone else. And that was really the goal.
The goal and in crunching all this data, and trying to figure out the perspective of different generations, because it’s just it’s very tempting for older people to say, oh, you know, younger people are this way? Well, are they really, let’s try to look at what they say about themselves. And I think it has to go the other way, too. I think there is a there’s a tendency for, for younger people to say, oh, you know, older people, whatever, you know, that we’ve moved on, we don’t need to know their perspective. Yeah, you do. Because there’s wisdom in every generation. And it’s better if we try to understand where each is coming from. So that was really the goal in the book.
It sounds so reasonable as you lay it out that way. But I guess part of the challenge then becomes how do you bridge those different gaps, as we’re talking about, you know, six different generations all growing up in in starkly different times, different circumstances? Is there such a thing as bridging the gap?
I think there is. So you know, that’s something I’m very optimistic about that. I think there’s absolutely that opportunity for us, of all ages of all generations to learn about each other, and understand each other’s perspectives, through empathy, through understanding through listening, to just take a step back and realize, you know, this person you’re talking to you they grew up in a different time, and ask him about what that was, like, even a five minute conversation can really expand your understanding.
Now, you mentioned the workplace. And certainly, it’s such an interesting dynamic that’s going on in the workplace. It doesn’t matter where you live in the world, when we talk about generations. What are some common trends as it relates to this topic that are taking place in the workplace that you found?
Yeah, so when I look at workplace trends, I usually rely on a survey of 18 year olds, and you might say, well, there’s not a ton of 18 year olds in the workplace while they’re getting there. And their other be there after they go to a few years of college. But the reason I do that is that way, we can separate the effects of age from the effects of generation. So if you do a big survey at one time of workers, you’re not going to know if the differences you find are due to their age and career state, age, or are generational. And that’s really important. Because otherwise, if you do that, you won’t really know what’s actually changed. Maybe young workers are saying this, because that’s what young workers have always been like. So getting that perspective across the decades is really helpful. And that survey of 18 year olds goes back to 1976. So it’s an amazing resource. So a couple of things show up. So one is that work life balance has become increasingly important as we transition from Boomers to Gen Xers to millennials to Gen Z. So we’re really seeing a lot of emphasis on not working too many hours having more of an opportunity to have a life outside of work. That’s by far the biggest generational difference when you look in that data that goes across decades. Another thing that really shows up is Gen Z, compared to previous generations at the same age, is more likely to say they want a job where they can be directly helpful to other people. And that shows up in other survey data as well. Save entering college students, they say an important life goal is to help others who are in difficulty. And that has increased over the last 10 years or so in the transition between Millennials and Gen Z in college students. So I think that’s something to be aware of. One of the things I mentioned is that there’s a common perception that younger employees really want to make friends at work and really want a job that’s interesting. And those have actually gone down. It’s actually the opposite. Gen Z is actually less interested in finding, finding those things at work than previous generations were at 18. So it makes sense. Younger generations might be interested in that, but that’s probably age and not generation. So those techniques might be effective, you know, looking at the at those factors, but they are actually a little bit less active than they were for previous generations. When
it comes to all these generations working together effectively in that office environment. Anything in your research, point two strategies that could help that.
Well, I think understanding some of these differences is obviously you know, the first step you And just realizing that there’s different perspectives, different upbringings that there are some myths and realities about what those generational differences in the workplace really are. And trying to take that perspective with a young employee and what they want to get out of that job. Because you know, the reality is people change jobs more often now, partially because of generational differences, partially because that’s just how the workplace has changed, that things turn over faster, that it’s not just that employees are less loyal employers are less loyal companies are less likely to hang on to people for their whole careers. So that means mentoring is really, really important. If you want to keep some of those younger employees around for a longer time and get the benefit of the training, and not have to leave after six months. So there’s a couple of things. Having promotions, things happen more frequently. So used to be in a lot of workplaces, you didn’t get a promotion, nothing would happen after two years, or more. And that’s difficult for generations that are more used to instant results by spending so much of their time online, for example. So some companies have moved to having smaller promotions every six months. And that seems to be a good effective strategy. And you know, another is just in framing feedback, that there’s a lot of discussion around younger generations, being more sensitive to feedback. So putting it in the frame, my favorite is to put in the frame of I want you to be successful. So I’m giving you this feedback, because I want you to be successful, not because I want you to fail, but I actually am interested in you’re doing well. And so I’m going to try to tell you how to do that. So said that framing can be very helpful when you have to give what would otherwise be considered negative feedback or criticism.
When we talk about parenting, and the role that parenting could potentially play in the behaviors and characteristics that define each of the generations that you’ve outlined, outlined, how, you know, individuals think and act depending on the generation they come from, could you sort of provide your insight into what you found through the research on that?
Yeah, so, um, trying to quantify changes in parenting is really hard. It’s easier to quantify, you know, other other types of characteristics and behaviors that that have changed. But we do know a little bit, parenting has certainly become less authoritative, and more, more open, a little bit more permissive. It’s much more common now than it was, say, 50 years ago for parents to say, oh, I want to I want to be my child’s friend. You know, I want them to know I’m on their side, they need for us to be more on the same level. And that strategy has a lot of advantages. Your parents and children are emotionally closer with that parenting style. The downside is when your kid of whatever age wants to do something that maybe isn’t the best thing. And you do have to be a parent, you do have to step in and realize you’re not just your kids friend, that your child is going to have many friends throughout their lives, but they’re only gonna have one or two parents. So you do have to be an authority figure. And that’s a very difficult thing for a lot of gen xers and millennials to think Wait, you know, I’m going to be an authority figure. It doesn’t come naturally to us, given our upbringing, in a time of individualism, where we have just, you know, flatter leadership structures much more, you know, much less formality. So, I know, I experienced that myself that it really took me some time to step into that role. But realizing that that’s often what kids need, they need structure, they need a parent to set up those guardrails to be an authority figure. That doesn’t mean that you have to use physical punishment, it doesn’t mean that you can’t connect with your kids. But it does mean that you have to realize your job isn’t to make your kid happy at every single little moment. Your job is to raise a productive citizen. I once heard someone saying I had this was just so insightful. You know, when you’re a parent, you’re not raising children, you’re raising adults, because that’s the end goal to raise a productive adult.
Let’s drill into that a little bit more. You talked about Gen Z. We’re talking about people born between 1995 and 2012. It generation that’s never known life without a smartphone. What are some key traits about this generation that would be important in your estimation, and in the research you’ve done for parents to know?
Yeah. So one is if you think your kid is on their phone or on social media, a tremendous number of hours a day, you’re probably right. There was a Gallup poll that recently found the Average adolescent spends almost five hours a day on social media. And that’s just social media doesn’t count texting their friends, doesn’t count, homework, or any of the other things that they’re that they might be doing online. It does include YouTube and tick tock, as well as Instagram, and Snapchat and other social media apps, but five hours a day. And total screen time, by some estimates, is nine hours a day. And that’s huge. And that means that there’s less time for sleeping. teens don’t sleep as much as they used to, they spend a lot less time with their friends in person. So they’re growing up their adolescence really is fundamentally different from what it was like for for previous generations. And the other aspect of that is sure, there’s some advantages to technology. But less sleep less time with friends in person, and a lot more time online is a terrible formula for mental health. And sure enough, we have a huge mental health crisis. And it’s not due to the pandemic. So teen depression rates of clinical depression among among US teens, doubled between 2011 and 2019. So even before the pandemic, so we can’t write it off as saying, Oh, it’s just a pandemic, and then it’s going to get better. It’s not getting better, the data from 2120 22 is just started to come out. Well, we’re coming out of the pandemic, and those teen mental health statistics are not getting better. So I think that is even more evidence that it’s probably linked to this change, and how teens use their time that they’re spending so much more time online. And so that’s why I think parents setting those limits around technology is so important that it’s important for mental health. And I will acknowledge parents are in a very difficult position because social media in particular, so unregulated, that they don’t verify age that you don’t need parental permission, and you can’t be hovering over your kid all the time. I understand all of this, because I live it every day in my own house. But that’s one reason to put up the smartphone, when you do give them a smartphone put parental controls on it. So they can’t use it in the middle of the night. So they can’t download apps without permission. So if you do give him permission to use a social media app, that there’s a time limit on it of a half hour or an hour a day or two hours a day at most, just setting some of those reasonable limits of everything in moderation. And I think that’s just it’s so important to understand. Because sure, yeah, this is the way kids communicate. But that doesn’t mean that it’s going to be a free for all, we still have to set limits.
Any other specific characteristics or peculiarities that you uncovered in the course of the research for generations, about specific generations, we talked about? Gen Z, but any other generations that really struck you?
There’s, there’s, there’s so many, there’s so many interesting changes. I mean, you know, one, one thing that I’ll mention is one of the outcomes of technological change is it often results in what’s called a slow life strategy. So what that means is when people live longer, when life expectancy is higher, that parents tend to make the choice to have fewer children and nurture them more carefully. And because lives are lasting longer. Development slows at every single stage. And I think this is so important to understand, you know, no matter what age your kids are, to realize it’s not just you and it’s not just a peculiarity of of their particular generation, that over the last few generations that that life cycle has slowed for every buddy. So children are less than dependent. Teens are taking longer to do things like get a driver’s license, or work at a paid job or go out on dates, or drink alcohol. Young adults take longer to get married and have children and settle into careers, and middle aged people look and feel younger than their parents or grandparents did at the same age. So 50 is the new 4060s, the new 50 You know, all of these things are related. And I think that hasn’t always been recognized. It’s often been this idea of, oh, you know, millennials, they’re just taking forever to be adults, you know, they don’t want to adult. And then with teens, like what’s wrong with Gen Z, that they don’t want to get their their driver’s license? This is something that’s affecting all generations, it’s much broader than just one generation. You know, they didn’t Gen Z didn’t wake up one day and say, hey, you know, I don’t think it’s important to get my driver’s license. You know, this has been this is a trend that’s been going on for a while, across all of these generated nations. And it’s so helpful for trying to understand the broader trends and realize why’s that? It’s not just unique to your kid or even your kids generation, that if they’re taking longer to do those things, they’re in good company.
So all this incredible data that you have distilled into generations. And I wonder, is there a specific aspect or facet of society that you think really needs to pay attention to these differences to the, to greater understanding of these generations moving forward?
Well, I think there’s there’s a number I mean, I think first, as I mentioned, there’s very little regulation around social media. But there’s finally some public policy attention to that. So a few states, including Utah have passed laws saying, we’re going to raise that minimum age for Social Media to 16 and require that the company’s verify age. And wouldn’t that be amazing, then there wouldn’t be this thing of, say, 14 year old mom, everybody else is on social media, if it was more regulated that you couldn’t be on social media, that would get rid of a lot of that social pressure. So I’m really hoping that we get more of those group level solutions, because that’s what you really need. It’s very tough for individual parents and individual kids to say, okay, my kids aren’t going to be on social media when all of their friends are. So I really do hope. And then when, you know, age isn’t verified, and a kid can do it without your knowledge. So I hope there’ll be more regulation. So that’s one definite area where we really need to pay attention, given these huge changes in mental health, and mental health overall, is what we really need to be putting a lot of attention, because those increases in depression are starting to move up the age scale. They, at first, we’re not affecting those ages 26 and over. And now we’re seeing increases in 26, to 34 year olds for depression as well. And it wouldn’t surprise me if that started moving even further up the HCl and generations. So the more we can do to get better mental health treatment, to figure out better ways to live, maybe cutting back on technology more time with people in person preserving sleep, then maybe we could turn around those mental health statistics, because it really is a crisis.
Dr. 28, what would you say the research is pointing to in terms of where we are moving forward, in terms of what we need to know about generations, as we continue to evolve and progress into the future? Yeah.
So you know, I think having that perspective of the impact of technology is really a game changer when it comes to understanding generational difference, that, you know, in whatever role you’re in as a as a parent, as a manager, that if you’re thinking, Oh, my kids are this way, because of the pandemic, or my younger millennial employees are this way, because of 911, you really miss out on what was actually different about how they grew up and what really shaped them. Because what really shaped them was technology and growing up more slowly. And individualism. You know, those three, explained so much of the generational differences. And that’s really the theory that I that I lay out in the book and generations, because I think it’s so helpful to understand those three concepts really help crystallize so many of the differences that that you’ll see. And I think it also is helpful, because those are such a broad trends, and they’re not unique to just one generation.
Is there anything that you uncovered in the course of the research that you put into generations that really struck you even as somebody who’s been in this field of study for over 30 years, as you have?
There, there were several, you know, I think, I think one some of the most striking findings, the ones that surprised me the most were around sexuality. So a few years ago, I was looking at changes in sexual partners in the General Social Survey, which is a big survey of Americans. It’s been done since 1972. And increased includes people of all ages. And I was really surprised to see that for at this point, it was millennials and then became true for Gen Z, as well as time of dawn, that they’re actually less likely to be sexually active as young adults. And that that really blew me away you think of the influence of individualism, which is so strong, has decoupled sexuality for marriage a lot more. So you would think that there’d be more sexual activity among people who were young adults, and there’s actually less, but it comes back to that slow life strategy. that they are taking longer to do all adult things. And that includes sexuality, technology, we have an influence as well, a lot of people have discussed the role of pornography, and that which may be part of it. But also, that spending so much time in technology and less time, with people face to face, there’s a lot of people who are very uncertain about dating and sexuality, and that takes them longer, takes them further into their 20s to explore those areas of adult life. But those are definitely some findings like that, I had to go back and crunch the data, you know, four and five times to really believe because it was so counterintuitive.
Now, if you’re 20, what would you say you would like readers of generations to leave to take away from your book.
I think the most important thing is really that piece around perspective taking and empathy and understanding. And beyond that, it’s just recognizing how much technology has changed our lives. And not, not all bad. I mean, all not all those changes are bad, most of them are good. That we have to realize, you know, think about living now, there’s a lot of negativity, right now, I think, you know, around politics, and, you know, for good reason around things like climate change. But there’s so many good things about living right now. And most of them are due to technology, that we had better medical care. So we do live longer. And we’re not we don’t have as many people of all ages, you know, dying from things that are now completely preventable. Infant mortality and child mortality used to be so much higher than it was now. It’s incredible how much progress that we have made, we still need to make more we made so much progress. And then how technology and labor saving devices have given us back so much time. So I got kind of obsessed with washing machines. When I was writing this book, maybe particularly as a woman of thinking, how much time it used to take us take basically the whole day of the whole group of women working together, you know, boiling water over an open fire and using, you know, very harsh soaps that were bad on the skin. And just and it took so much time. And now how do we do laundry, we’d throw it in the washing machine and then go do something else, and then switch it to the dryer. Right? So it’s really incredible, that and grocery stores and ovens just all of these things that have saved us so much time in our everyday living. No, but here’s the question here, I think is the takeaway. What are we going to do with that time that we’ve been given back by technology? Are we going to use it to enjoy each other? Or enjoy the world around us and enjoy nature and get exercise and read a good book? Or are we going to use it watching tick tock videos? And mostly we’ve done the latter. But I think that’s what we had to think about is is that really the best way to use the time that labor saving devices and better medical care have given us probably not?
Certainly powerful Food for Thought Dr. Jean Twenge, a professor of psychology and author of generations. We so appreciate your time and your perspective today.
Thank you for joining us.
Thanks so much.
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These words, spoken by Dr. Jean Twenge, illustrate a central theme in her latest book, Generations: The Real Differences Between Gen Z, Millennials, Gen X, Boomers, and Silents―and What They Mean for America’s Future.
A psychology professor at San Diego State University, Twenge, author of six other books and over 180 scientific papers spanning a 30-year career, spoke to Lianne Castelino, host of Where Parents Talk, in a video and podcast interview from San Diego, California.
Twenge’s book highlights the unusualness of six generations coexisting in society, a first in history. This is significant because there is so much misunderstanding among these generations. She attributes much of it to technology changing how we communicate and move and entertain ourselves.
She raises concerns about the amount of time younger kids now spend on phones, which is disrupting natural development processes. Parents owe it to their kids to create strict limits. “We’re not going to go back to 1985 or 1995,” Twenge says. “But we also can’t just give up and say, ‘Hey, you know, kids are going to be on their phones 24/7, and that’s fine,’ because it’s not fine. We have an adolescent mental health crisis; we have to think about these things.”
The trifecta of excessive online time, less in-person time, and impaired sleep is “a terrible formula for mental health.”
Twenge’s two main pieces of advice to concerned parents: 1) No phones in the bedroom overnight, and 2) delay phone ownership for as long as possible. Her own three teenage daughters cannot have smartphones until they have a driver’s license; even then, they are not allowed any social media.
Younger generations struggle with being an authority figure, even when it is desperately needed by their children.
“Your child is going to have many friends throughout their lives, but they are only going to have one or two parents,” Twenge says. It is a parent’s job to set up guard rails and boundaries. “When you’re a parent, you’re not raising children; you’re raising adults, because that’s the end goal—to raise a productive adult.”
Twenge says that increased life expectancy is leading to a “slower life strategy” for all generations; people have fewer children, invest more in them, and take longer to reach milestones. It is happening to everyone, so parents should not feel discouraged if they think only their child is slower to mature.
As for how we should approach our longer, healthier lives, Twenge urges listeners and readers to consider the tremendous amount of time that labour-saving devices and improved medical care have given back to us and to think hard about how we want to use it.
“Are we going to use it to enjoy each other? To enjoy the world around us and enjoy nature and get exercise and read a good book? Or are we going to use it watching TikTok videos? Mostly, we’ve done the latter.”
It is never too late to choose another path.
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